By: Gen. Jim – 5/17/26
“My mom, the cult leader: ‘She told us what to wear, when to pray, how we would have sex. We were prisoners.’” -from The Guardian.
Sex? Yes! Let’s talk about that!
In our PX3 Files under “Incest with the Kids”???, Sarah told The Guardian, “And half the male [ACMTC] members were having INCEST with the kids. That was a no-no when I was there. Disgusting. Gross. That all happened after I left.” (March 29, 2026). Sarah left our community in 1999. So, after she left all this incest took place, she says.
The “kids” that she claimed were molested by half of the males I will now introduce to our readers – 11 of them, some girls, some boys. Let us hear from them. Other EX-ACMTC members like Julie Gudino & Jamie Bridgewater et al. claim the same thing – the kids were molested.
I just did an article, “Concerning The Death of Enoch Miller” (5/16/26), showing what these same kids had to say when interviewed by the (female) FBI therapist. Now I will put forth her “notes” after the video interviews – exactly as the FBI has on file. I will only use their front initial & age.
Let’s Get Started
No.3 of 12 questions: “Any abuse or neglect of any of the kids at the camp; discipline, (2) spanking, bad food… any kind of abuse or neglect, etc.”
(1) “C” = 5 years old: The therapist (‘T’) asks what happens when he gets in trouble. C says he gets a spanking from his mom.” (note: not a BEATING like some x-members say) the ‘T’ asks what she spanks with, C says a stick & nothing more. The ‘T’ asks where she spanks on his body, C responds on his butt, nowhere else. The ‘T’ asks if he noticed any bruising or marks, C responds that he doesn’t get bruises when she spanks him. The ‘T’ asks how come he’s received spankings, C says he was being bad. The ‘T’ asks what he does that’s bad, C doesn’t respond.
The ‘T’ asks if any other kids get spankings, C says “P”, and that mom & dad give them to her, with a stick. The ‘T’ asks if he noticed any bruises or marks on her, he hasn’t seen her get spanked. The ‘T’ asked how does he know she’s been spanked, C said he hears her scream.”
(2) “D”: 12 y.o.: The ‘T’ talked about body safety, they discuss the private (sex) parts. D doesn’t like talking about it because it’s nasty. Then ‘T’ asks if anyone has ever looked at or touched his parts, or someone wanted to touch or look at their parts, D says NO!, talks about the Bible. Then ‘T’ asks if he’s ever had to tell his mom or dad about something like that happening, D says no because it’s never happened.
(3) “E”: 14 y.o.: ‘T’ asks how the kids learn about privates & what you’re allowed to do & not to do. E said they learn by their teachers. They learn about “good touch” & “bad touch”. Bad touch is where people touch you in the wrong places; private parts. E has never been touched. If it happened, he would go to one of his parents or older adults & tell them. They’ve never had that happen before; they don’t do that as Christians. E has never seen or heard that something like that has ever happened. If it happened to one of the kids, he’d tell them to tell any of the adults.
Enter Det. Chavez
Det. Steve Chavez (a total liar & alleged child abuser, as some believe!).
Chavez asks if E knows about privates, they go through them.
Chavez asks E if any bad touches happen, now is the time to tell me. We can see that this liar cop does not believe what E told the FBI! Chavez continues:
If bad things are happening, you gotta tell me otherwise I won’t know. This is the way he treated Enoch’s mother, pushing her to say that Deborah withheld medical help when Enoch lay dying with the flu. She had already told this bully cop it was her (Stacy) decision to not take Enoch to the hospital. You can see that this evil sheriff det. wants to make a sexual abuse case.
Chavez continues to pressure E in telling him that sexual abuse was committed. He says, In all of your 14 years have you seen bad touches, bad things? (E: NO!) He then turns to Josiah & Isaiah (our two grandsons, have they never touched you in a bad way? (E: NO!). He continues out of desperation to get a YES he says, have you ever seen anybody get touched in a bad way? (E: NO!).
Well, dear readers, you may not know what we know about this slimy cop, but I think you can discern that he himself is not clean. (see Cibola citizen newspaper articles in which he had 5 filed complaints against him for digging too deep into certain women under his command while Chief of Police, after he left the Sheriff’s dept.).
(4) “E” (female): 13 y.o.: (video 2:) People who have turned against them (ACMTC/Generals) have spread lies about child abuse & “crap like that” (her words) which is not true at all & gets people in trouble for no reason. (Video 3:) The ‘T’ brings out the other kids that have talked about spankings; E says it’s “slightly smacked”, not violent like getting hurt.
(note: when the sheriff’s dept. first visited us, before any of this, the sheriff’s undersheriff, JV, said there was no law against spanking in N.M.).
(3) “I”: 7 y.o.: (video 1:) Therapist asks what would happen if someone broke an arm or a leg, I responds – (video 2:) ‘T’ and I talk about E getting his foot hurt, Momboo (what the kids called Deborah) prayed over it, when the ‘T’ asked if the parent knew, I said yes & they just asked Momboo to pray about it. When I got sick, Momboo prayed for him & he got better. (Video 2 cont.:) They talk about when all the kids got chicken pox, that Momboo prayed over them, the parents were praying too, tried to make things better, & they finally got better.’
Enter Chavez
Chavez: (talking about good & bad touches). Have you ever gotten bad touches? No? No bad touches at all? Nobody has ever smacked you or nothing like that, or hurt you? I: “only E plays with me like that. I kind of ask him to.” (This also comes up in the CYFD video that I asks the other boys to be rough with him in case he ever went to public school, but that detail is not mentioned here.).
Chavez: Who does your spankings?
I: My mom and dad.
Chavez: Where do you get hit?
I: On the butt or hand.
Chavez: Do you get hit with a stick sometimes? How big is the stick?
I: That big. They’re always that big.
(note: we don’t know “how big” I doesn’t say. The “stick” was usually a small stick about the size of a ruler. I know Chavez wants the stick to be like a club! so he can arrest more people – a cop’s dream!!!
Chavez: Does anybody else spank?
I: All of the adults.
Chavez: Does anyone else spank I? or just mom & dad?
I: Just my mom & dad.
(Audio 1:) Chavez asks about good touches & bad touches, if he’s ever been touched on his private parts or seen other kids get bad touches, I says NO!
(6) “J”: 12 y.o.:
Chavez: Do you understand the difference between good touch & bad touch? J: No.
Chavez: Ok, so the first thing I want to talk about is a truth & a lie. (They go through a process of truth & lies).
Chavez: Do you know of any bad touches that happen here?
J: Nope!, no bad touches ever.
Chavez: Have you been told to say that?
J: No!
Chavez: Do you remember Aaron & Benjamin?
J: Aaron was my closest friend.
Chavez: Well I talked to them & they said something different.
J: What did they say?
Chavez: That there were bad touches. Are you telling me the truth?
J: Yeah, there’s never been any bad touches that I’ve heard of.
Not a single person at ACMTC then nor now believes what this dirty cop says about those 2 boys (sons of Brian Miller – the x-member who threatened his wife with a knife (got this on DVD!) & left his 5 kids & wife with us to raise. He, when he joined back in the early 1990s, told Deborah and me that he had had homosexual encounters. Well, this did not shock us we’ve worked with perverts for many years. The point being, Brian HATED us, esp. Deborah. Chavez knew this, so he tells this LIE knowing Brian would back him up. You can read about BM in Harrison Hill’s Oracle’s Daughter – He is full of hate. He once attacked Col. David Wright (aka D. Gain) up at Santa Fe, NM.
Don’t believe a word Steve Chavez says – he is a serial liar!
(7) “J” (female): 9 y.o.:
(Video 2:) The Therapist says “I heard something about if you don’t work you don’t get to eat,” J says that it’s not true. ‘T’ asks about timeout or spankings, J says maybe once a year. The ‘T’ asks who gives the spankings, J says mom or dad. ‘T’ asks if anyone else does the spanking, if they’re allowed to, J says no!
(Video 3:) The ‘T’ asks about safety, if anyone has touched or looked at her private parts, or if someone asked her to touch or see her parts; if it did happen, she would tell her mom or dad but nothing like that has ever happened.
(8) “J”: 7 y.o.:
(Video 4:) the ‘T’ asks about body safety, J says yes, that no one has talked to him about it but he knows about it. The ‘T’ reminds him it’s certain parts of our body people aren’t supposed to look at or touch, J responds b & your w (butt & worm) the thing right by your leg. The ‘T’ asks if anyone has ever looked at or touched his privates, or if anyone asked him to touch theirs. J says no! The ‘T’ asks if he would tell anyone, J says probably. The ‘T’ asks who, maybe mom or dad, & J says yes.
(Audio 1:) Chavez: (talks about good touch & bad touch). Have you ever seen bad touch here at camp? J: Not really.
Chavez: If kids get in trouble, what usually happens? J: usually gets a spanking & yelled at.
Chavez: who usually spanks & yells?
J: You get yelled at, they say ‘don’t do that’ or something. They spank you if it just means with a stick or something.
Chavez: Do you get spankings?
J: Sometimes
Chavez: who spanks you?
J: My mom.
Chavez: Does anyone else spank you?
J: My dad didn’t spank me, but my mom did. That’s the only person who yells at me & spanks me.
Chavez: Is that good touch or bad touch?
J: When she yells at me: It’s not a bad touch.
Chavez: It’s a bad touch, huh? Has anybody else done a bad touch to you?
J: Not really, we wrestle upstairs, there’s a room by another room called a boys room where we wrestle, just play, & wrestle like boys. That’s a good touch because it’s fun to wrestle.
(Audio 1 cont.:)
Chavez: so, another kind of bad touch, do you know your private parts are?
J: Yes. (They go thru the private parts)
Chavez: Has there been any touches on any private parts?
J: Not really.
Chavez: Ever? No?
J: I think one time but I didn’t remember.
Chavez: who touches private parts?
J: Nasty people.
Chavez: Is there any nasty people here?
J: Not really. But my mom spanked me & pulled down my pants, but I was being bad.
Chavez: So has anybody else touched private parts?
J: No!
Chavez: So has anybody else touched private parts?
J: Not really at all maybe two or three times.
Chavez: Oh, who did that?
J: I don’t know I don’t remember. I said maybe.
(note: we can see how Chavez got EXCITED over the prospect of someone in our group that he could arrest for child sexual abuse!)
(9) “N”: 9 y.o.: (Video 1:)
N mentions that the adults are really old, that they and the families are in prison now for no reason, the ‘T’ reiterates the families are in prison now? N says because they’re saying that they abuse us or something. The ‘T’ says I wonder why someone would think that, N responds, I don’t know why either. They just said they thought they abused us but they didn’t that’s just what someone said.
(Video 1 cont.:)
The ‘T’ asks if they get spankings, N says they spanks us but they don’t whip us like everyone is saying.
(note: the state accused Deborah of whipping Miracle Green (aka “Trinity” in Hill’s book) with a cat-of-9-tails! Yep! You heard that right (see PX3 Files).
N continues: … they spank us, but they don’t whip us like everyone is saying, that they whip the tar out of us but they don’t, they just spank us. They say they use metal – but they don’t they just use a small stick. Mom uses a spanking stick, she keeps it on her desk. The ‘T’ asks what part of the body she hits, N says his arm, no bruises or marks, just a tap.
(note: In many of the anti ACMTC / Gen. Deborah docs/articles) this “BEATING” theme is repeated over & over. No proof. The only “beating” we’re aware of is that of Julie Gudino, who beat her son many times – we protested. This was before all this happened at Fence Lake. Allow me to quote what Deborah’s attorney said when he interviewed Special Agent Pete Baca (NM state police) back in Aug. 29, 2018:
Attorney: there was a kid at some point who used to live down at that Fence Lake property. I think he was something like 13 or 14.
Baca: Wow.
Attorney: And he ran away one time because he said his parents were spanking him a lot. And his name was Zachariah. Does that ring any bells?
Baca: I remember the words – the name Zachariah.
Attorney: He had a mother named Julie Gudino.
Baca: No, I don’t remember that.
Attorney: And – and Zach claimed that his mom used to basically BEAT the CRAP out of him!
Baca: Where?
Attorney: With a belt & all that kind of stuff… (taken from the pre-trial interview (D. Green). This interview took place at the DA’s office in ABQ., NM – State vs. Deborah Green). This report I have is 130 pages long.
As per Julie, she is mentioned in Hill’s Oracle’s Daughter, blabbing her mouth against us, esp. Deborah. Zach told us that she & her husband (a ACMTC captain when he left) did sex acts in front of him many times. She also appears on some docs as well. She is a SERIAL LIAR! Both her & hubby joined ACMTC back in the Mid 1980s. Both were ex-gang members. Julie was bi-sexual. I hear that she now is a lesbian. I can’t confirm this, but I don’t doubt it. She was, at times, a real good soldier/officer, served on the mission field in the Philippines with her husband & our daughter, Sarah. This alleged lesbian, along with Sarah & Maura showed up at Deborah’s trial – testifying against her. 3 sex perverts! 3 BIG LIARS!
(10) “P” (female): 5 y.o.: (Video 1)
Therapist asks if the older kids get into trouble with mom or dad, P says E does, not E (female), that E (male) gets spankings with sticks (cont. on video 2).
(note E & E are brother & sister. Both are adults now. E (male) is one of my computer experts who helps me get all these articles up on all our 6 websites)
(Video 2 cont.:) P says her dad spanks him, ‘T’ asked what parts of him are spanked & she says on his hands; no marks or bruises from the stick, she was in her room, her hand was spanked with the stick; no marks or bruises. The ‘T’ asks who else spanks. P says everyone but then denies that Momboo, Grandpa (me) & her mom don’t spank, but then says everyone again when asked. (note: P’s brother & sister are E & E).
(Video 5:) Therapist asks P what parts of her body are not supposed to be touched, she says privates; mom told her about them, that nobody touches those parts. The ‘T’ asks where the parts are, P didn’t know. If it did happen, P doesn’t know what she would do. She’s never seen any one get touched on their private parts or anyone asked to see her private parts.
[note: In Oracle’s Daughter Jamie Bridgewater (X-ACMTC member) is quoted as saying: “Deborah FORCED (my emphasis) the children to eat food that adults ‘would never eat because it is spoiled or rotting (BIG LIE!),’ she wrote. ‘The children are treated worst (sic) than animals.’ Little girls behave in a bizarrely provocative manner, too. Showing off their bodies & ‘acting like lesbians.’” So she says! She also accused one of our officers of sexual abuse with his own daughter. When questioned by authorities how she knew, she said “I saw it!”. Well, from the position she said, “I saw it!”, the authorities examined the spot & concluded that from where Jamie was standing, she could have NOT seen any sexual abuse –especially because it’s impossible to see something happen that didn’t happen! Well, this woman has now joined the BIG FAT LIARS Corps! (see OD, p.p. 234, 235).
Finishing up with P’s interview (video 5), ‘T’ asked P what her hands felt like after she got spanked on them, P said not that bad.
(11) “Z”: 9 y.o.: (video 2:)
The ‘T’ said she had heard someone tell her about burns, that someone got burned on their fingers. Z said they (B -male) were taking a hot thing out of a tray out of the oven & it was really hot. B went over to touch it & he burnt his finger. They wrapped it up, never saw a doctor. It didn’t hurt that bad.
(Video 2 cont.:) The ‘T’ asks him to expand more on the sex abuse comment he made earlier, Z says ‘our enemies say that they did all this stuff but it’s not even true, all that stuff you hear is lies!” The ‘T’ asks what does sex abuse mean to you? What do you think that is? Z says that they beat us & harm us, hitting, not treating them right, all that, but they (meaning adults) don’t.’
Fin
There you have it folks – straight from the 11 kids’ mouths – straight from the FBI notes taken from the video interviews. NO ABUSE! Yet, Hill is eager to print the opposite. Just how does he know those liars like Maura, Julie, Sarah, Jamie et al. are telling the truth?
No one was charged in reference to these 11 kids that Sarah said were being molested – after she had left (with a man other than her husband, leaving 3 children behind. So much for integrity and transparency!)